I have lived in an established mobile home park for five years. I purchased a brand new manufactured home and had never lived in a park before. My home is immaculate inside and outside. I have always maintained my yard. Prior to moving into this park I had lived in a traditional home. This appears to be the biggest (financial) mistake of my life. I am financially working very hard to move in five years, purchase my own land and purchase a double wide manufactured home. Recently, the landlord had water meters installed on all the homes in the park. I had requested that I be present because I have had damage done (has since been repaired) to my home in this park. My request to be present was met with resistance from the owners daughter and her male companion living with her. It was only by chance that I was there to oversee the installation of the water meter. My water line was left exposed (even though I had had my water line insulated and had an electric line installed to prevent freezing when my home was initially set up in this park) by the individual from the company installing the water meters and the owners male companion. Since I had never heard of sub-metering, I send her a letter (certified) requesting information about this process. I never received an answer. I then again send her another letter which she forwarded to the company who was handling the installation. The president of the company also did not seem to respect my wishes to be present when the water meter was installed! I had to purchase insulation and heat tape and re-insulate my water line.

Now, the landlord's daughter, who has made it known all along that she is the "agent" is charging me a residential rate for the water and a business rate for the sewage! I have contacted an attorney (who will be sending the owners of this mobile home park a letter) and will also report this mobile home park and the company who installed and who reads the meters to the Public Utility Commision. I was informed that this was illegal. When I called the president of the company (who installed the meters and reads them) to inform him that this was illegal, he told me that it was not and that the landlord wanted to "recoup" the business rate they are being charged for sewage! I then wrote a letter to the landlord (her daughter who is the "agent") and informed her that this was deception. I could not believe it when I received notification that the check was received and cashed! I had wrote out separate checks for the lot rental, the water bill, and the sewage bill.

I have been an excellent tennant, always paying my lot rent on time, maintaining my home, both inside and outside, and am tired of always hearing about how difficult tenants can be. I am definitely one of the "good" tenants and am so sorry that I moved into a mobile home park. I needed to "sound off" and would appreciate any advice from "good" landlords.

The landlord and her daughter appear to want to be dictators. Everything is find as long as you agree with them - whether it is legal or illegal!

This mobile home is located in West Mifflin, Pennsylvania.

Thank you.

Submetering is indeed legal in most areas unless specifically prohibited by statute or current community guidelines (park rules and regulationsd) or lease terms. Obviously, if this results in a change in your billed rate of rent, the landlord must provide you with notice as outlined in the state statutes. And, damage to your home must certainly be corrected if done by the landlord or an agent of the landlord. However, submetering is good for you as a resident (tenant). When the landlord pays for all the water used, people are generally not as conservative as they are if they are paying for it. That means that faucets and toilets are allowed to run rather than being repaired and water is usually wasted in other ways as well. Without submetering, you as another resident, are indirectly paying for a share of everyone else's water usage and wasting. And, if there was a huge water main line break that increased the landlord's cost of water, that would also be figured into what you pay as rent. Now, with your own meter, you will only be paying for the water directly used - or wasted - by your household. This should significantly lower your overall expenses as this portion of your housing cost is now controllable by you.

You do not understand. I am being charged a residential rate for my water and a business rate for my sewage. I have contacted an attorney. This is illegal. I have also contacted the Public Utility Commission and the Attorney General. A private resident cannot be charged a residential rate and a business rate!

As I stated in my previous note, this was the biggest mistake of my life and I do intend to move out in four and a half years. Living in an established mobile home park is like living in hell. My landlord does not communicate any and all changes that are being made. Additionally, after five years of living in this park, I had to bring to the attention of the daughter (who is their "agent) that they are still spelling my name wrong but have taken my monthly rental check every month!

I will be much happier when I purchase my own land.

This mobile home park is located in West Mifflin, Pennsylvania and the name of the park is DePretis Trailer Park OR DePretis Trailer Court. I still cannot secure the legal name of the park after five years!

If the name of this park is..."DePretis Trailer Park OR DePretis Trailer Court."..that should have been a clue as to the professional aspects of the ownership when you moved in...The "Trailer Park" name went out of the industry in the 1960's...

Your state does have an agressive public service commission...They would be the ones to contact..

Update: I recently secured the services of "Pre-Paid Legal Services (nominal cost of $7.27 per pay!) and was informed that this was illegal. Pre-Paid Legal Services will be sending the owners - Sylvan & Mary DePretis, their daughter - Lucy Taylor, who is their "agent" and the company that installed the water meters on the homes, Mr. Jon Epstein, Water Saver Systems, Inc., Bethesda, MD. I was told that THIS IS ILLEGAL! I am very happy that what I thought all along is true. My landlord and the company reading their own meters will realize that I do not plan on "going with the flow" even when something is illegal.

Until I can move out in approximately 4 years from now and purchase my own land, I will always have the services of Pre-Paid Legal Services.

After this experience, I would never recommend that anyone purchasing a manufacture home move into an existing park. It is much better to purchase your own land.

Wow! Im glad you dont live in my park.

In four and a half years, I will NOT be living in anyone's park. I will be on my own land! I have learned through this experience and will again tell anyone considering entering into an existing park to purchase their own land. What is legal is legal and what is illegal is illegal.

On what grounds did this legal service find that submetering is illegal? I agree with Chrissy. Submettering is actually good for the residents of a park. The park owner cannot charge more for the weter/sewer then is beeing charged by the utility. A simple call to the utility, and you will know what the rates are.

I own a park in Florida. If water/sewer were applied to lot rent, the residents that live in the park only during the winter months would be subidizing the year round residents. Single residents would be subsidizing those homes that have 2 or more residents. It would encourage water conservation. It's clearly a better way to go.

The sub-metering is not an issue here, its that a RESIDENT is being charged on the same rate as a BUSINESS for sewage. You did the right thing by going to an attorney. However, the real criminal is the city utility system for charging a residential complex business rates. Go check out apartments, see how they are billed by the utility, I doubt they would be billed as a business. Also, the park owner has a RIGHT to recoup all costs accumulated with providing you water, electricity, ect. I however, would have sent a notice indicating the discrepencies of rates, and politlely tell the residents that if they had any problems with it, to call the utility company and complain to them.


P.S. Chrissy, do you have a ACM 201 class on schedule, if so, are there still spaces available?

Thanks,

Lance Nerland

In some areas, a community is charged the same rate as a businesss - not a residential rate. And - in some states, it is legal to charge residents the published rate residential customers pay - even if it is higher than the community pays.

As to the ACM 201, I am in the process of booking one for July in Tampa, and will have room. Please communicate with Beth Loftus of the Florida Manufactured Housing Association at 850-907-9111 to keep up with the date and to register. Thanks!!

I do not care if the owners of this mobile home park have a right to "recoup" monies for being charged a business rate on their sewage. Based upon what the attorney told me "they are charged a business rate BECAUSE THEY SECURE MONIES FOR THEIR BUSINESS - NAMELY LOT RENTAL RATES FROM TENANTS. My sewage bill is more than my water bill and I DO NOT secure monies from being a resident. I do not own or operate a business from my residence.

I DID NOT SAY THAT SUBMETERING IS ILLEGAL). I SAID THAT I WAS BEING CHARGED A RESIDENTAL RATE ON MY WATER BILL AND A BUSINESS RATE ON MY SEWAGE. THIS IS ILLEGAL. I TRIED TO CALL THE UTILITY COMPANY BUT WAS TOLD THAT THE OWNERS DID HAVE A CONTRACT WITH THEM AND WOULD NOT GIVE OUT ANY INFORMATION (PRIVACY ACT).

THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT IT IS ILLEGAL. I HAVE LEARNED FROM SUBMITTING THIS ISSUE IN THIS DISCUSSION FORUM THAT I WILL MOST DEFINITELY HAVE MY OWN LAND IN 4 1/2 YEARS.

This park has been existence for OVER 30 years and they have NEVER replaced any water line - only repaired them! All I have constantly heard is how expensive repairs are and that they cannot afford to replace the lines. I will never believe that anyone who owns a park is poor. If it has been so difficult I would like to know why the park that I am in has been in existence for over 30 years. Additionally I recently send the owners of the park a letter asking:

a. when the one and only pole light in the park was going to be replaced. This light has been out FOR OVER A YEAR.

b. why in the five years that I have been a resident, they cannot spell my name correctly but ALWAYS took my lot rental check!

c. the owners additionaly now (after five years) want each tenant to give them copies of taxes paid (city, county, and school). I again asked my attorney who said that this was illegal. I do not (AND WILL NOT) give this information out.

In my opinion, there was sufficient time to install individual water lines for each tenant so that the tenants would have separate water/sewage bills from the Water Company and not receiving bills from the owners of the park.

I was warned not to move into an existing mobile home park from someone who did (and was given good advice that I did not follow) and told me horror stories about how the park was not maintained and the only thing that did change was the lot rent, year after year. (This is what I have been experiencing for the full length of time I have been in this park).

Owners of parks NEED TO REALIZE that WITHOUT TENANTS, there would not be parks!

While I am sympathetic to your situation, please realize that not all existing utility companies will add customers. And, if a community owner wants to submeter, not all utility companies will accept those residents as direct customers. Often the choice is not the landlord's to make.

I disagree. The landlords DID have a choice. They had 30 years to replace water lines for each tenant. Hence, there would not be a need for submetering.

When I move into this park I was told that it "was going through a transition". I was lied to by the dealer who sold me my home. The dealer secured a park space for me in this park. I am still waiting! I do know of other parks in the surrounding communities that have replaced water lines and tenants receive a bill directly from the water company. I found out this information when my problem began.

As I stated earlier, moving into an existing park was the biggest mistake of my life. Not only am I paying for lot rental, but also pay separately for garbage service and now water and sewage. (I have always paid for my own electricity). When I sent a letter asking what specifically the lot rental includes, I NEVER received an answer and the letter was sent certified. The owners of this park do not and never will appreciate good tenants. This is a small park (30-35 homes). The one and only road into the park also needs repaired. I know that this will never occur. A tenant has a right to ask questions and to expect answers from their landlord.

After this experience, I would not (and Thank God I will not be "stuck" in this park) move into another park. I can't wait until I have my own land.

Cheryl,
First off the business rate for the sewage has got to be cheaper then the residential rate. Every business receives a better rate then residential. Second, the new meter co. that does the reading knows full well that they cannot charge more for the sewage and water then what the park is paying. It is illegal to make money on this. The co. would not risk losing everything just to charge you a little more for the water and sewer. Third, what does installing new water lines have to do with your new meter? Nothing. Every park, the resident is responsible for the water from the ground to the house. Puting in new water lines in the ground should make no differance to you. Fourth, most cities will not put in and read meters on each lot. As a matter of fact, yoiu should consider yourself lucky. The park is master metered and because of this they receive a much better rate then if the home was billed by the city. because of this you are not being charged like a person in town would, you are getting a better rate.

Finally, keep this mind. No park owner or manger wants to be bitched at all the time. From what I can tell you probally make life miserable on them. Im not saying that your complaints are unfounded. Its just that I deal with people like you and after while you realize that no matter what, some people just cannot be pleased. Because of this, the park manager/owner just tend to ignore you after a while. I get this impression from you because you said you insisted on being there when the work was done, certified letters, etc...

Also, everyone thinks park owners are rich and rolling in the cash. That is not always true. We work hard, put up with a lot of crap, and have invested tons of money into our parks. When people like you see us driving a new car or living in a nice house you think it must be nice and boy are we pulling one over on the residnets. The fact is I earn my money, Ive invested money into my park. I give people a nice place to live at a reasonable cost.

You do not sound like a happy person and probally never will be pleased. I hope the park owner cannot wait until you can move in 41/2 years.

You must live in a very business friendly state...I cannot speak for PA...but in GA..where I live..small business pays 3 or 4 times the amount of residential rates on water..sewer..electric..phones...gas...Very large businesses do get substantial discounts...but the small guy suffers..

WHY WAS THE MESSAGE THAT I SPECIFICALLY LEFT FOR "STEVE" DELETED? IS THIS NOT A "DISCUSSION FORUM"? DOES ONE HAVE TO ACCEPT INSULTS FROM A COMPLETE STRANGER?

WHY IS IT THAT PEOPLE CANNOT ACCEPT DIRECT, HONEST COMMUNICATION (IN OTHER WORDS, TELLING THE TRUTH)?

I

Yikes,

Cheryl - you win - now leave. People like you are enough to make someone sell their park.

Is life not short? I can tell you it is. Have a glass of wine and be glad you're breathing. Go listen to the birds or something - I am exhausted by this post as other are.

yikes

Cheryl, it sounds like to me you are a very unhappy person, Maybe you need to slow down and think about what your community does provide for you, a safe place to live, residents close by who may help you if got sick, fell down or could not get to the store or doctor, the owner of this community may be the one you may need to depend on some time in the next 4 years. Think about that. But he may tell you to call your lawer to see if he will help you to the store or the doctor.
What i am trying to say is i do not think the owner of this community is trying to get rich off of you by billing you water & sewer it could very well be that he or her was misinformed about the charges. Be happy

I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT ANY INTELLIGENT INDIVIDUAL WOULD PAY AN ILLEGAL BILL?????????? NOW I KNOW WHY THOUSANDS OF INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE MADE THE CHOICE TO PURCHASE THEIR OWN LAND AND NOT HAVING TO DEAL WITH LANDLORDS WHO ARE BECOMING RICH OFF OF INDIVIDUALS. I HAVE A LANDLORD WHO IS ADDITIONALLY TRYING TO CHARGE ME A "LATE FEE" OF $25.00 PER MONTH. NOW TELL ME THAT THIS LANDLORD IS NOT TRYING TO SECURE MORE MONEY OUT OF ME. I HAVE A LANDLORD WHO THINKS SHE IS "MARTHA STEWART" BUT FORGETS THAT WITHOUT TENNANTS, THERE WOULD BE NO PARK! I AM AMAZED AT HOW NASTY PEOPLE HAVE BECOME TOWARDS ONE ANOTHER SINCE SEPTEMBER 11TH. MONEY SEEMS TO HAVE BECOME THE GOD IN THIS WORLD.

KEEP THROWING THE INSULTS - I AM QUITE CAPABLE OF DEFENDING MYSELF. I ALSO KNOW HOW TO SPELL!!!!!!!!!

UPDATE: I AM SUING MY LANDLORD AND ACCORDING TO MY ATTORNEY, I AM STILL LEGALLY RIGHT AND WILL WIN.

ONCE AGAIN FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT UNDERSTAND. IT IS ILLEGAL TO CHARGE A RESIDENT A RESIDENTIAL WATER RATE AND A BUSINESS SEWAGE RATE. MY SEWAGE BILL IS AT LEAST ONE AND A HALF TIMES GREATER THAN MY WATER BILL!

THIS MESSAGE IS FOR BRENDA:

BRENDA,

I CURRENT WORK IN ONE OF THE BEST UNIVERSITY HOSPITALS IN THE CITY OF PITTSBURGH AND WORK IN A DEPARTMENT OF 80 EMPLOYEES.

TRUST ME WHEN I SAY THAT THE LAST INDIVIDUAL ON THIS EARTH THAT I WOULD TURN TO IF I BECAME SICK WOULD BE MY "NOT SO HONEST" LANDLORD.

THE MAJORITY OF TENANTS IN THIS PARK ARE ELDERLY (AND AFRAID TO SAY ANYTHING - I AM NOT - I WILL NOT HAVE ANYONE TRY TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF ME - I HAVE TOO MUCH RESPECT FOR MYSELF AND WILL MOST DEFINITELY DEFEND MYSELF). THE LANDLORD HAS MADE IT KNOW THAT SHE IS ONLY CONCERNED ABOUT MONEY, MONEY, MONEY.

IN THE FIVE YEARS THAT I HAVE BEEN IN THIS PARK, THERE HAS NEVER BEEN ANY IMPROVEMENTS - MAJOR OR EVEN MINOR - I HAD TO COMPLAIN THAT THE ONE AND ONLY OVERHEAD LIGHT IN THE PARK NEEDED TO BE REPLACED - IT TOOK A YEAR!!!!!

A OWNER OF A PARK DOES NOT PLACE A SIGN IN THE OFFICE (WITHOUT ANY WARNING) THAT THE OFFICE IS CLOSED INDEFINITELY. THIS ALL BEGAN WHEN TENANTS HAD ISSUES CONCERNING THE WATER/SEWAGE BILLS. IT TELLS ME THAT SHE DOES NOT WANT TO HEAR WHAT HER TENANTS HAVE TO SAY, THAT SHE ONLY WANTS TO CONTROL AND DICTATE - WHETHER IT IS LEGALLY RIGHT OR WRONG.

ALSO, PLEASE LEARN TO SPELL.

EVERYONE, HAVE A WONDERFUL LIFE!

I KNOW I WILL BECAUSE I LOVE DEFENDING MYSELF AGAINST INDIVIDUALS WHO DO NOT HAVE ALL THE FACTS BUT FEEL THAT THEY KNOW EVERYTHING. AN INTELLIGENT INDIVIDUAL NEVER OPENS THEIR MOUTH WITHOUT SECURING ALL THE INFORMATION. I LEARNED THIS A LONG TIME AGO.

This is for you CHERYL,

You will never be happy, maybe you need to wake up and smell the roses and
be happy you are alive, i wish you luck in your future, Also look at how you spell
no one is perfect.

Have you put all this in writing to your landlord or community manager, have you
really tried to sit down and talk this out without being upset. We all have problems in our communities, some residents you can sit down and work things out, some you can't. Cheryl i manage a community with over 400 units, we charge water &
sewer to all our residents, the water is always less than what the sewer is, if we
raise our water or sewer rates we send out a 90 day notice to all of our residents
so if anyone has a concern they have ample time to come in and talk to us about
their problems on why they do not agree with the rates. Remember we charge
for water & sewer so there is no waste and each resident has their own meters
so they can track their readings if they like. We do not charge more than is
required by law.
Cheryl, just to let you know we charge $25.00 on the 6th day of the month that
site rent is past due plus $5.00 per day late no caps. So be happy you are
only charged $25.00 if you are late.
Like i said i hope you will be happy, some people just cannot live in a community
and must be on their own land. GOOD LUCK YOU WILL NEED IT.

THIS MESSAGE IS FOR BRENDA:

I DO KNOW HOW TO SPELL - YOU NEED TO RE-READ MY MESSAGES. HAD YOU READ ALL THE MESSAGES YOU WOULD HAVE LEARNED THAT I TRIED TO TALK TO MY LANDLORD - SHE HAD IGNORED ME BECAUSE NO ONE EVER QUESTIONED HER BEFORE. I AM NOT OLD AND ELDERLY AND AM NOT AFRAID OF HER. THIS IS AN INDIVIDUAL WHO IS DETERMINED TO DO WHAT SHE WANTS - EVEN IF A TENANT PROVES THAT WHAT SHE IS DOING IS ILLEGAL?? THIS TO ME IS PURE STUPIDITY.

I NOW HAVE NOT ONE, BUT TWO ATTORNEYS WHO AGREE WITH ME 100% AND STRONGLY SUGGEST THAT I SUE (WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT I PLAN ON DOING). IN FACT, THE ONE ATTORNEY STRONGLY SUGGESTED THAT I MOVE BECAUSE OF HER ILLEGAL ACTIVITY. TRUST ME, IF I COULD, I WOULD MOVE TOMORROW. IT IS A QUESTION OF FINANCES - WHICH IS WHY THE REST ARE "AFRAID" TO SPEAK UP. I ALSO HAVE LISTED MY FIRST AND LAST NAME - WHY ARE ALL OF YOU "AFRAID" TO DO THE SAME?? I TELL IT LIKE IT IS - OPEN AND HONEST (WHICH IS EXTREMELY RARE IN THIS WORLD) AND I ALSO LOVE MYSELF ENOUGH TO FIGHT FOR MY RIGHTS (WHAT COUNTRY ARE WE LIVING IN.)

MY LANDLORD IS QUITE CAPABLE OF TAKING ADVANTAGE OF ELDERLY AND POOR INDIVIDUALS WHO CANNOT FIGHT FOR THEMSELVES ( IT APPEARS THAT SO ARE "OTHERS"). IT DOES NOT REQUIRE ANY BRAINS TO BE A BULLY! I AM NOT SURPRISED AT HOW MANY ("OWNERS" AND/OR "LANDLORDS") ARE SIDING WITH A LANDLORD WHO IS DEFINITELY RUNNING A BUSINESS ILLEGIALLY!!!!!!

YEARS AGO WHEN I RENTED A WHOLE HOUSE, I NEVER RECEIVED THE HORRIBLE TREATMENT FROM THAT LANDLORD - YET THIS LANDLORD SEEMS TO THINK THAT SHE NOT ONLY OWNS THE LAND, BUT THAT SHE OWNS MY MANUFACTURED HOME (YES, SHE STILL CALLS MY HOME A "TRAILER"!) AND THAT SHE ALSO OWNS ME (SHE CAN DO WHATEVER SHE WANTS - LIKE ILLEGIALLY CHARGING ADDITIONAL FEES EVEN WHEN I HAVE HAD AN ESTABLISHED LAWYER AGREE WITH ME).

BRENDA, YOU ARE JUST ANGRY BECAUSE I, AS A TENANT HAS USED THE BRAINS THAT GOD GAVE ME AND BECAUSE I (IF YOU READ ALL THE MESSAGES CAREFULLY) WILL WIN. ONCE AGAIN, THIS LANDLORD IS DOING SOMETHING ILLEGAL AND I DO INTEND TO FIGHT FOR MY RIGHTS -

YES BRENDA, GOOD TENANTS DO HAVE RIGHTS AND DO HAVE A RIGHT TO ASK QUESTIONS AND IF LANDLORDS CANNOT HANDLE THIS, THEN THEY NEED TO GET OUT OF THE BUSINESS.

WHAT COUNTRY IS THIS?????

IT IS NO WONDER WHY THERE ARE LAWYERS!! I LIVED IN THIS PARK FOR OVER FIVE YEARS, ALWAYS PAID MY LOT RENTAL FEE ON TIME - ALWAYS MAINTAINED MY LOT AND EVEN BROUGHT IN SEVERAL OTHER TENANTS BECAUSE THEY LIKED MY HOME!!

I HAVE BEEN WORKING SIX DAYS SO THAT I CAN MOVE (AND WILL NOT BE "STUCK") LIKE HUNDREDS OF INDIVIDUALS ARE IN THESE "WONDERFUL MOBILE HOME COMMUNITIES". MEANWHILE MY LANDLORD WORKS 4 HOURS PER DAY AND COMPLAINS HOW TIRED SHE IS. I SHOULD HAVE IT SO EASY. THIS LANDLORD HAD PREVIOUS TENENTAL WHO WERE FILTHY - THIS IS WHAT I HOPE SHE GETS IN THE FUTURE AFTER I MOVE OUT. THIS IS A LANDLORD WHO DOES NOT DESERVE GOOD TENANTS.


REMEMBER - WITHOUT TENANTS THERE WOULD NEVER BE PARKS!!

EVERYONE, HAVE A WONDERFUL LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!

ENJOY!!!!!!!!

I think maybe you should just try and sell your mobile home and move into a appartment or get some fianance to move your mobile (it cann be done with not great credit, if thats your concern), you just don't suit the mobile home community life.

I have been reading the posts and I know first hand a community can save 30-40 percent if not 50 percent on the water usuage if they submeter. So think of if this way if there were no meters your rent would be 30 - 50 percent more than what it is. Also be glad you live in a manufactured home, utilities,taxes etc. are cheap compared to a stick build home on a private lot which everyone is losing these days because they over bought.

I wonder where Cheryl is now?